Ep 1: Introducing the Niche Advisor Podcast

Ashley Murphy
Ashley Murphy and Jack Buttjer
March 29, 2023
Jack Buttjer
John Carter - Radio Webflow TemplateJohn Carter - Radio Webflow Template
Ashley Murphy and
Jack Buttjer
March 29, 2023
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Ep 1: Introducing the Niche Advisor Podcast
March 29, 2023

Ep 1: Introducing the Niche Advisor Podcast

Episode one dives into the purpose of why Ashley and Jack created the Niche Advisor podcast.

The Importance of Discovering and Developing Your Niche as a Financial Advisor

As a financial advisor, you may think that your success is solely determined by your ability to manage your clients' finances. While that is certainly an important part of the job, there is another aspect that is often overlooked - the importance of discovering and developing your niche.

Defining Your Niche

When we talk about a niche in the financial advisor world, we are referring to a specific area of expertise or focus. This could be a particular demographic, such as young professionals, or a specific problem that you have experience solving, such as retirement planning for small business owners.

The benefits of defining your niche are numerous. First, it allows you to focus your marketing efforts and tailor your message to a specific audience. This can help you stand out in a crowded market and attract clients who are a good fit for your services.

In addition, defining your niche can help you build a reputation as an expert in that area. By focusing on a specific problem or demographic, you can develop a deep understanding of the challenges facing your target audience and offer customized solutions to meet their needs. This can lead to increased client satisfaction and referrals.

Discovering Your Niche

So how do you go about discovering your niche? For some advisors, it may be a natural outgrowth of their personal or professional experience. For example, if you have a background in accounting or tax law, you may naturally gravitate towards working with high net worth individuals or small business owners.

For others, discovering your niche may be a more deliberate process. You may need to do some market research to identify areas of need or opportunity that align with your interests and expertise. You may also need to experiment with different niches to see which ones resonate with you and your clients.

One approach to discovering your niche is to use the six areas framework. These areas are: problem, industry, demographic, location, interests, and business model. By considering each of these areas, you can identify potential niches that align with your interests and expertise.

For example, you may specialize in retirement planning for small business owners (problem) in the tech industry (industry) who are aged 50-65 (demographic) and live in a specific geographic region (location). You may also have a personal interest in sustainable investing (interests) and offer a fee-only business model.

Developing Your Niche

Once you have identified your niche, the next step is to develop it. This involves refining your message, building your network, and becoming an expert in your field.

Refining your message means tailoring your marketing and communication efforts to your target audience. You should speak their language, address their concerns, and offer solutions that are relevant to their needs. This may involve developing specialized marketing materials, such as a website or brochure, that highlight your expertise in your niche.

Building your network is also important. You should look for opportunities to connect with others in your niche, such as attending industry conferences or joining professional organizations. This can help you stay up-to-date on industry trends and best practices, as well as provide opportunities for collaboration and referral partnerships.

Finally, becoming an expert in your field means ongoing education and professional development. You should stay current on industry regulations and trends, as well as seek out opportunities to deepen your expertise in your niche. This may involve pursuing additional certifications or licenses, attending specialized training programs, or working with a mentor or coach.

Lifestyle Benefits of Pursuing Your Niche

While financial success is certainly an important part of any business, it is not the only measure of success. Pursuing your niche can also lead to lifestyle benefits, such as improved work-life balance and personal fulfillment.

By focusing on a specific area of expertise or interest, you may find that you are able to work more efficiently and effectively. This can lead to more free time, which you can use to pursue other interests or spend time with family and friends.

In addition, working in a niche that aligns with your personal values and interests can provide a sense of purpose and fulfillment that is hard to replicate in a more generalist role. You may find that you are more engaged and motivated in your work, and that you derive a greater sense of satisfaction from helping clients achieve their goals.


In conclusion, discovering and developing your niche as a financial advisor is a critical part of building a successful and fulfilling business. By focusing on a specific area of expertise or interest, you can differentiate yourself in a crowded market, build a reputation as an expert, and provide customized solutions that meet the unique needs of your clients.

To discover your niche, consider using the six areas framework to identify potential areas of opportunity. Then, focus on refining your message, building your network, and becoming an expert in your field. The lifestyle benefits of pursuing your niche, such as improved work-life balance and personal fulfillment, make this a worthwhile pursuit for any financial advisor.

Episode Transcript

This is the niche advisor podcast, a show for financial advisors about practice management prospecting, in fact finding niche digital marketing and building a virtual client experience. Your hosts, Ashley Murphy and Jack butcher will share their strategies, tips and content they use to Grow Financial Advisory practices across the globe.

Hey, Jack. Hey, Ashley. All right. Well, here we are a niche advisor done that we have finally finally finally gotten together to make this happen. So this is, this is absolutely thrilling. Jack, why don't you start off? Tell me tell me who you are. What's what it is? What do you do? Who do you work with? Yes, very exciting. This is a project that I've been looking forward to starting for a while now. It's finally time to start a podcast. And thank you for inviting me to be the co host. But yeah, my name is Jack butcher. I'm the founder and CEO of House of work. We're a global marketing and automation agency serving independent RAS. We do website design and development, email marketing, digital lead gen, as we like to call it, and I'm sure we'll get into here sooner than later. But niche marketing is a growing passion of mine. And I guess we should first establish for everybody listening. Is it niche? Or is it niche?

Well, I think it depends on who's listening, right? That's how I'm gonna vary. If it's, if the French then I'll say niche, but if they're American and niche and rich rom together, and if it's niche, it's quiche. So it depends. It definitely depends. So um, so Jack, I just want to refund a little bit there, I noticed that Word Global is that is that entirely due to me being in Australia? Is that how you say your global?

Yeah, so to be transparent with everyone, the global financial planning it's to, and Ashley's firm out of Australia, as well as a couple other firms across the globe are clients of the agency. So I guess that allows me to add that global tag.

I forgot. Yes, I know of other clients of yours that are overseas. So you're right, you have license to use that term. I was thinking, we may need to correct that in a few months time when I moved back to the US. But now there are other clients. So that's, that's good, a little bit about me. So I'm the founder and principal of airtight wealth strategist, Australia, we work with Australians in America and Americans in Australia to bring strategy structure, clarity and compliance to the global financial affairs and keep it that way. That's my soundbite that, that I've committed to memory. But um, Jack, let's let's get started. So there's this interest in niches? Where did this broadly come about? Like, why is it we're even having this point? What do we what do we see a need to address what we believe is a gap in information with regards to to how financial advisors get their their services out to their clients.

So with my background, being in digital marketing, I've come to a realization that, man, everybody's on the internet, right? There are so many online businesses that in order to break through that sea of sameness, you have to differentiate yourself. And we'll talk about what a differentiated advisor looks like versus an undifferentiated advisor. But I think a niche represents the founder that started the business. You know, it stems from a person becoming self aware, understanding their passion, and then uncovering their niche from that passion over time. It doesn't happen right away, and you shouldn't choose a niche right away.

I think if you're an experienced advisor, like if you are someone who and I'm thinking of someone, actually from the GFP Institute, if you're an experienced advisor who had to sit out for two years because you sold your firm and there was a non compete, I think someone like that could come back in with an absolute killer niche and just focus exactly on that note precisely what they're doing. But I think what you're saying applies more to folks that are just getting started you know, where it's something that evolves over time and you know, your life experience will kind of begin there'll be a common narrative throughout your life experience in you can you can pull on that thread. And as I was mentioning, in a prior conversation, Jack, the way I came to my niche was a result of working in a in a family insurance broker dealer firm, but in the Bay Area back many, many moons ago. And the focus that didn't use the word niche or niche they they talked about your natural market, your cell your natural market, you know, where did you go to school, what sports you went to, where, you know, where do your friends come from? Sell into that because it's going to be better. Now we've moved on from that way. I'm a fee only advisors are not technically selling anything other than my advice. But I kind of think they're under the same thing. They're really talking about your niche. And it takes time to discover your niche. It takes introspection, and, and we'll talk more about that. But anyway, I just just wanted to say, I think it varies depending on your life stage.

Oh, you're totally right. Yeah, experience is a big factor and life stage, as you put it. I started my business two years ago, and I'm still discovering my niche. I wouldn't say I'm as niche as I want or need to be, but everybody's at a different stage in the process. And I think having both of our perspectives is really going to help our listeners.

Absolutely. You know, the thing is, we in preparing for today's call, we're looking at some of the benchmarking studies. And I know, x y PN get into deep, deep focus on niches. And that's kind of the thing, I feel in part because Michael Kitsis is really, that's kind of been a key observation of his over the past decade or so I'd say. And there was an interesting result that we observed there. And that was actually from the 20 report, which is the most recently publicly available report that x y PN have got is that the revenue growth for a niche advisor was actually for the first time I had not seen this before, but it was actually a little bit slower than the generalist advisor. And that could be because the results of X Y, or X, Y in general, is very skewed towards early stage advisors. And I think to get traction as an advisor does take a little bit longer. But what I'm coming to is that the the rewards of being an advisor, I don't think I'm measured in a purely financial way, I think if it comes back to looking in the mirror, or looking at your calendar, or reflecting over the course of the past year and thinking about the life that you lived. I know before 2018, when I was a generalist, I was running myself ragged, I was taking meetings all the time, the diversity of clients situation that I would encounter was vast, it could be anything from a small business owner to some someone's family with special needs, or a you know, someone had just gotten married or a student loan debt. It, it meant that I was having to constantly do so much work to and create templates and, and stay on top of CEE to know what the heck I was even doing. And so now that I'm I'd say it's 2023. Now, I'm five years into going deep into my niche. And the benefit, as I began to say a moment ago, is not just financial, those results have been very strong. And, you know, we'll talk about that. And that's why we feel vindicated. And even running a podcast is because of the strength of the results that I've seen amongst other clients of yours pursuing a similar strategy Jack, but, but also, an example of the lifestyle paid off, I think comes as recently as last week, I took a trip to Sydney, stayed in a five star hotel to attend a conference related to immigration in Australia, which seemingly to finish lies, what's that have to do with anything? Well, as I found out yet, again, because it's the second time I've been there, not a great deal. But nevertheless, it was an opportunity to visit clients in person, see some friends and family down there, you know, become better at what I do, and at the same time, feel like a well rounded person in being able to get out. See clients see centers of influence in person, and and just get away from the office for once. So anyway, that's my broader point is that the pursuit of the niche isn't just financial. I'm sure a lot of folks will focus on that. But you know, if you know yourself, and you know what motivates you, then maybe you'll realize that it's it's not all about money.

Oh, you're 100%? Correct. What you're describing is a lifestyle business. And I know you went through limitless advisor with, with Stephanie Bogan. And she talks a lot about creating a lifestyle business. So let's dive into that very briefly. How do you assemble your practice so that it benefits you not only financially but in your life as well?

Like a politician, Jack, forgive me, I'm going to answer a slightly different question that you asked, I'm going to answer the question, how do I measure success because I thought you're going in that direction. And then you refined it a little bit more to say, what are some of the practice management strategies that I use in pursuit of what I define as success? And what I define as success is really expanding and truing that that wheel of life if you've ever done that life planning exercise where there's a you've got a wheel typically there's about eight different components in there. It's family, family health, physical, it will say health and physical, same thing. Family Health, Physical business, friends, spirituality, financial, all these different elements. And to me, I am, I'd say, by my nature, one of my one of my deep, most deeply held values is viewing things in a holistic manner. You know, if I had a bumper year was making a ton of money, but I didn't have any time to see friends or to go on bike rides or travel with my family. And I'd say, what's the point of that? I've got great, I've got extra money. That's all well and good. But Tim, I think of money is and sometimes I refine it this and have had a bit of a mental game with clients. It's like, what if we changed the currency name, we didn't refer to as US dollars, we refer to it as potential wellbeing units. And if I made more potential wellbeing units, then how am I going to convert it from potential to actual, and I don't see how you can if you're not living your life in balance, where you're, you're thinking about these other areas, also? So that's the first answer to that question. Jack, I think is one of the other elements. If it's not just financial, it's it's time it's having time so that you can get out and do other things. thing I'm focused on right now, I've got a big race coming up. It's a it's a road cycling race, on the weekend after next. And I've structured my week in my meetings, as I have done actually, for the past two months, as you're probably aware, because it was another one that was on the weekend before last. But I've structured my meetings around training for it. So this afternoon, I'll be knocking off at three o'clock so that I can do a ride, Thursday afternoon, same thing. So it's, it's, there's a lifestyle advantage there. And I do think it's worth adding. And I have mentioned this also with the Global Mobile advisor marketing, that I'm in the best health that I've ever been in as well. And no one ever talks about that no one, when we're talking about the success of referrals, as I grew by 300%, actually 400% As I did over the past five years, that's true. But guess what I also set personal bests. And just, you know, losing weight, feeling better, feeling more confident about myself, in every minute of every day, and that you can't put a price tag on but it's, it's what money would buy you if you if you could buy it.

And that work life balance is so important. We need to find ways to unplug. And as a multi sport athlete growing up where I was fortunate enough to play football in college, one of my hobbies has become Disc Golf. Our point is that on average, a person will work 80,000 hours. You know, one of the websites that really impacted me early on was 80,000 It really opened my eyes to strive for Passion Driven work. And this is something I believe everybody, especially my generation should strive for, because a lot of people just have jobs. The next stage of that is finding a career, and then you use your career to find your passion. And in my opinion, creating a business is the best way to go about working those 80,000 hours of your life.

We felt that there was a gap in the market there for furniture advisors. And the reason there is the playbook that a niche advisor follows is in my opinion, I think it's quite different. I don't know if it goes far as they fundamentally but it's very different to the the Advisor that works in you know, maybe a broker dealer or a White House or somewhere like that, where it's more geographically focused. And what I've observed in in my time is that the experience of the niche advisor is different in terms of how you you prospect to your clients, the the particular knowledge that you focus on the marketing processes that you follow to make your yourself known to your target audience. And so when I'm at a conference, and there's a marketing practice management person talking very, very quickly, I'll zero in and I'll say, Oh, this is not really addressable to me if they're talking about you know, having a lunch and learn and inviting your clients into to get the local rep from some whole, you know, some wholesaler to talk to your clients that could be adapted, perhaps, but it tells me straight away that that actually the playbook that they're following is not going to work for me and so that's the broader observation that Jack and I had here is that the the marketing and the practice management tools for a niche advisor are just different to what you get with a mass market phone.

I want to emphasize that marketing becomes so much easier when you have a niche. And we've discovered this is the case, especially with online advertising, creating your marketing messaging so that it speaks to your niche results in more conversions and revenue at the end of the day.

Absolutely. Absolutely. The general framework of niches Jack, you were the one that put me onto this. And I think this is the best I've seen on this topic, what we've done, you and I together and at work, we've really come across this, this broad framework of niches, but we've, we've talked about it a lot. And we've realized that it actually condenses down and it's, it kind of forms some sort of pyramid but also a circular graph in a way. And we think what is that the foundation of a niche is a problem. It's the problem. And that problem could be a function of any number of other things, it could be a function of the industry that that individual works in, it could be a function of their life stage, it could be a function of their nationality. So just to give some examples there to flesh that out a little bit. I mean, a problem being from an industry would be Tech Tech, with equity compensation or consultants with how hard they work and the manner in which they expect to see information delivered. So that we're small business owners isn't even it's not really industry that's more in its own category, right, that life stage would be saved retirement people are dealing with, the problem that they're looking to solve is someone who understands retirement and succession planning, or nationality, the problem they're dealing with, and why they're looking for someone who understands that problem is moving their money and their financial life across borders, I think lowered lower down this hierarchy. The other five attributes of the six total attributes, and that is next would be religion. And I separate religion out from personal interests, because I think religion is, is the extreme version of a personal interest. It's, you know, when we when we talk in, in colloquial terms, when we say, you know, this person has a religious belief in blah, blah, blah, it may may be literally they do, you know, with their religion, but also it means the most stringent, unwavering practice in something. So I think that that's another element and it's separate from from personal interests. Next, I'd say is location and location is, is very important. I have been saying and I it's funny when, when I happened to be self referencing, but I'm one of the few advisors that can I have lived in the Bay Area, and I sort of started my practice. I've lived in the Minneapolis, St. Paul, Twin Cities for seven years. And now I've been back in Australia for two and a half years. And I can tell you, absolutely, the psychologists have not yet named this bias, but there is a geographic location bias. And I see it all the time, when when I'm referred a prospective client, and they'll say, so where are you? They always seem to want to know where I am. And I've set myself up to be location independent. And yet they want to know, because the thoughts that follow from the physical location are things like, what's the regulatory environment? What's the news, and what was the information environment culture that you are subjected to, and are therefore going to be familiar with? Now, what I have had trouble overcoming is to say, Yeah, I've been in Australia for the past two years. But guess what, I've also been back to the US a couple times, I've attended a bunch of conferences, I attend a bunch of virtual conferences, I speak at virtual conferences, I've actually made a very conscious and intentional decision to immerse myself back in a US information environment. So while they may be physically present in Australia, I'm offsetting that but people don't buy it. In general, they're like No, no, if you are located somewhere you are going to be exposed to that information environment without some extreme program to counteract that. But physical location is huge next business model. I've also found this to be a big deal clients will simply prospective clients will simply proceed no further, if you say sorry, we work in a long term engagements, assets under management. That's how we work. That's a great I will not work with you because I refuse to do that business model. I happen to hear that frequently. And I say that's fine. That's not a match for for what we're looking for. But but it is a big thing. And so if you did work on a project basis, and that's absolutely what you're committed to and that aligned with with your values, then I would lead with that in every conversation that where you're you're getting the word out, you'd say we work on an hourly basis. Is there a project basis. And in a way, you know why there, those advisors if they served an identical niche to me, but their business model was different, I practically wouldn't view them as competitors, I just wouldn't sell well, you're looking, you're serving someone different, I send those people the way. So then they're not even competitors. If every other element was identical to mine, it's, I still wouldn't see them as a competitor.

From a marketing perspective, problem based niches perform the best, you can typically communicate an ROI there. But be careful, right. As we all know, financial advisors shouldn't guarantee anything unless told otherwise by compliance. But typically, prospects can see an ROI. If your niche is based on a problem. When it comes to your messaging, the problem you're solving should be apparent, and the other elements of your niche should show up on your website and other marketing materials.

I thought I would go through actually, and just talk about this in some detail. This may take a few minutes, Jack, but I just want to go through and share with listeners, the the way I approach this with with aerotow, Australia, Australia. So the problem that these individuals are facing is, hey, I've got a I'm a dual national, or at least a dual tax resident, I may or may not have assets in different countries, or I may be looking to move from one country to the other. And I know that there's a different tax system, retirement system, you know, gifting and estate, all these different things will be will be different. So I know I have a problem. The industry that's funny, you know, because that that has come about, really by default, I wouldn't say that it's something that I've chosen so much, but it's a function of who are the Aussies that actually emigrate, or the Americans that emigrate? Who are they, and they do, in fact, tend to correspond to particular industries, namely, tech, finance, consulting, professional services, I think, would probably be the umbrella category that, that they're included in the demographic in terms of age, race, and nationality. So age really over 35, it says kind of my 35 to 65 was really my sweet spot. And nationality would would obviously be Australians. Location we just spoke about that is West Coast interests. Again, not really a huge thing, maybe the the, the interest in demographic kind of blend a little bit here, I'd say I do have some clients where their need for actual specialist advice. So the problem section has diminished over time. And that's not why we're working together, it's more there's history, the switching costs, but a benefit a bonus of continuing to work together is you've got someone that culturally, totally understand where you're coming from. So there's there's maybe an enhanced listening and empathy that comes from that that similar national background, and then the business model. That's an interesting one. That's the business model, I have tailored it to be ideal for my or to be suitable for my ideal clients, and it works for someone, it doesn't work for others. And that's fine. That's suggest suggest to me that it's a big enough niche that I can actually sub niches and just, you know, work with those clients that are going to be happy with the way that that I've chosen to go to market with a with a business model.

That's a good way to put it, actually. And when it comes to business model niches specifically, typically, with financial advisors, you see flat fee, hourly, and assets under management. But your firm happens to do a combination of the two. Tell us why you made that choice. And is there a benefit to charging in multiple ways?

Yeah, you know, that's a great question. And I think the problem that we were having historically was, we realized it was pretty unprofitable to work with clients on on a project basis. And so we we we got very clear about who it was that we want to work with, we wanted to be the long term financial partner with with families with households and so that way, that precluded working on a project management because typically projects have a defined beginning and end date. And alleys lacks the the leverage and the it creates the wrong incentive to look it certainly would be a good fit for the most proactive of clients but it's it's to me it creates a negative incentive insofar as with a gym if I had to pay $25 Every time I went to the gym and at the end of a workday, For a little bit tired, then it's easy to create that narrative and say, I'm not going to go to the gym because it's, it's not only am I tired, but I'll be $25 richer if I don't. So, basically, dinner is going to be, you know, free tonight, or half price or whatever, by that line of thinking. Whereas with the long term engagement, it encourages that interaction. And that's actually been leading on it's slightly different logic that's been leading me to think I, I've been wanting to publish to my clients and have a new touch point and say, this is the kind of engagement where we get the best results for their clients where we've used as your partner where, if there's a major financial decision coming up, we want you to give us a call or an email, say, Hey, what are the you know, what's your perspective on this? What What should I be thinking about, because that's where I think we really, really add value. But anyway, I'm winding the clock back to I think it was the end of 2018. I remember, we had one of our famous or in your view, you might, you might say infamous summit where we get together and just work, have a work weekend work be work for three or four days pretty much, you know, 12 hours a day for that whole time. And I was good together with my friend and GFP co founder, Matt Garn. And we went through it and we redesigned our business model. And what we came up with was this service package idea where this each service package has a fixed quarterly fee. But what's somewhat unique, I wouldn't say we're the only ones doing it by I don't mean to misuse the word unique, like we're the only ones doing it. But it's pretty rare. I mean, that's I've rarely heard of others that have got this exact structure. For each quarterly service package. Not only do we vary the number of meetings, the range of services included. But when we vary the amount of AUM included in the flat fee, so for instance, we have that the what's what is now our entry level service package, the asset model, it's coming in the first year is about $8,100 for the whole year. So it's 2025 per quarter. And that includes half a million in aum. So the way I explained clients, I say, if you had if we were managing exactly $500,000 for you, then that would be your fee, you know precisely what you're paying goes at 100 a year. And if it's an amount more than that, then what we do is we take the standard AUM fee schedule, and we discounted per the service package. So in other words, if someone's in the asset amounts above $500,000 are coming in, I believe off the top of my head, I don't have that fiscal in front of me, but I think 500 to a million is coming in at 0.65%. So the idea behind this jack is that we want to we want to remove or minimize the the fee hesitancy that clients have when they come across new money, we want to be a part of that overall engagement. And so we don't want them to say that it's going to be another $10,000 for them to handle that million dollar bonus that we get paid or I get paid the client okay. We want them to say you know what, we just want it as part of our overall advised relationship. And for that to be a secondary consideration. And another reason I just keep going here Jack when I get on a roll and other reason is we find that the there are correlates things that correlate to the complexity and the time taken on a on a client basis. And my my good friend Andy silver, he has developed a complexity based model. And I'd say that my service package based model, it's certainly not as granular and notice it involve as many elements as his does, but it's getting at the same thing. It's essentially trying to charge clients for the amount of time and this the the depth and breadth of resources that it will require in serving those clients. So just this morning, I didn't tell you this Jackie wouldn't you wouldn't have any way of knowing this. Kellen and I were were talking about a prospective client that's gone through the funnel and we've had a fit meeting and he's not it's really not a perfect fit. He is a high net worth guy. He's got a couple of kids multiple businesses and he said I just want to I want to I want to start off in the asset service package just because I want to wait and see how it goes and we not killing it. I know we've had these sorts of clients before we know that they really were working at the top of our license to provide the services that we do to them and and I just I was like no I you know I'm not I'm not going to start new an asset we're gonna go summit which is the service package up from that. Tibet twice the fee includes a million dollars of assets under management, but the idea of which is we know that the fee we're charging is going to better approximate the time that will actually take to work with him and to to get him the results that we know that we can deliver. So that's a long winded answer to your question about how we backed into the business model that we that we did.

No, I love it. And I think that tiered percentages based on assets is the way to go right? You've become more attractive to more high net worth individuals. And I feel like what you're describing is value based pricing, which is where my agency is going. Many advisors will lean towards hourly pricing, and that's fine when you start off, but at the end of the day, you don't want to be trading time for money. And as you get better at your craft, you want to understand what value you're delivering, and how your clients value what you're delivering, so that your pricing can become a win win. And with that, this is the conclusion of episode one of the niche advisor podcast. You can find this episode and the show notes on niche Feel free to check us out and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks so much and we'll talk to you next time.

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